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Apple offers reward for musicians to use high-end audio format?!

Allen Constantine

Senior Member
Have you seen the news?


I think it’s utter crap, to be honest.

Music should be felt the way the creator decided to make it, not how a big tech company intends to use it.

And on top of that, they are luring creators with this line “higher streaming royalties”. Yeah, right!

Why they don’t just say that Apple needs spatial audio for their line of Apple Vision stuff.

Every song mixed with this spatial audio thing sounds like a “tech gimmick”.

Benn Jordan says something interesting about this subject is you plan on listening.



Thoughts?
 
Why they don’t just say that Apple needs spatial audio for their line of Apple Vision stuff.

Every song mixed with this spatial audio thing sounds like a “tech gimmick”.
Well, that and the AirPods, MacBooks, displays and the rest that also "do" the Spatial Audio thing.

It's also no extra cost to Apple Music customers, and Logic provides free tools to mix in the format, providing you brought it in the last decade or so...

It's no big deal. Unless one places music on some sort of "art pedestal" I guess. And folk still have the option to listen to music in any way they wish? A Big Tech company trying to encourage creators to support a new format is not a new thing.
 
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Thanks for your responses and opinions.

It seems that everyone is going down the Atmos path.

I have a neo-classical album coming up next year, most probably I'll do it in both stereo and Dolby, but the question is, the majority of people don't have a Dolby setup...

And one last thing, will it make any difference if you don't hear it in pure Dolby? I guess not...
 
Has anyone figured out how to distribute to Apple Music Classical in Dolby Atmos?

I can’t find a distributor that does it yet.
 
But we still have only two ears, for something like 300.000 years. I'm still listening music played in the living room while being in the kitchen, so good luck with that.
Call me retrograde but full support of 2.0 here. No rewards for me :grin:
It’s less about having two ears, and more about the infinite places a sound can come from.

If there’s a bluegrass band playing in front of you, your brain can locate them in the room giving a 3D image.

2 speakers can approximate this to a degree with panning, because the speakers are still maintaining a static location when you move your head. The imagery is even better with surround speakers.

But with normal headphones, when you move your head the entire image moves giving you the feeling that the band is in your head.

With Spatial Audio, you can wear headphones and the objects in the mix stay in a specific spot in your room regardless of where your head moves.

It gives a very realistic 3D effect that is even better than surround speakers because there is basically no limit to where objects can be placed in your room.

Once it’s coupled with visuals in VR headsets like the Vision Pro people will finally get it and it will become more in demand.
 
Every song mixed with this spatial audio thing sounds like a “tech gimmick”.
Forget gimmicky Dolby demo mixes. Once you've heard proper 3D mixes on an (average) quality 3D monitor system, there's no going back. It's like Cinemascope versus black-and-white shoebox television. 8-) I've seen experienced, seasoned musicians crying over their own music in 3D control rooms because the emotional impact is so huge. You no longer hear the music coming out of the speakers, because the music is just there with you, in the same room.

Admittedly, the binaural renderings on headphones are only an approximation of the possibilities of 3D audio, albeit a good one (ideally). I'm sure there will be new possibilities for 3D monitoring on speakers, though, without having to have a dozen speakers in the room. Products like Sennheiser's Ambeo soundbars are already pretty impressive _now_, and they're only the first generation of this type of device. - It will be great to have good content available once we get to that next level.
 
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Forget gimmicky Dolby demo mixes. Once you've heard proper 3D mixes on an (average) quality 3D monitor system, there's no going back. It's like Cinemascope versus black-and-white shoebox television. 8-) I've seen experienced, seasoned musicians crying over their own music in 3D control rooms because the emotional impact is so huge. You no longer hear the music coming out of the speakers, because the music is just there with you, in the same room.

Admittedly, the binaural renderings on headphones are only an approximation of the possibilities of 3D audio, albeit a good one (ideally). I'm sure there will be new possibilities for 3D monitoring on speakers, though, without having to have a dozen speakers in the room. Products like Sennheiser's Ambeo soundbars are already pretty impressive _now_, and they're only the first generation of this type of device. - It will be great to have good content available once we get to that next level.
I have no doubt that a real space with full Dolby capability can transform a song into something amazing.

The big problem is that the majority don’t have this setup at home.

A very well treated Dolby room can easily cost 100K.

Also, let’s say you get some headphones that can translate Dolby really well, dunno’ the Audeze LCD-X for example. Still, their price is high for the average consumer.

Because yes, the binaural audio that is coming through the little airpods pro or not, is rather a silly “immersive” thing.



I’m thinking of renting a mix engineer who owns an approved 7.1.4 Dolby Atmos and mix and master my next album there.

Therefore I am not saying that Dolby is bad, just saying that at this point, for music, we are at this stage where right now the hype is just cheap marketing, especially coming out of Apple’s mouth.

My 2c.

Allen
 
I have no doubt that a real space with full Dolby capability can transform a song into something amazing.

The big problem is that the majority don’t have this setup at home.

A very well treated Dolby room can easily cost 100K.

Also, let’s say you get some headphones that can translate Dolby really well, dunno’ the Audeze LCD-X for example. Still, their price is high for the average consumer.

Because yes, the binaural audio that is coming through the little airpods pro or not, is rather a silly “immersive” thing.



I’m thinking of renting a mix engineer who owns an approved 7.1.4 Dolby Atmos and mix and master my next album there.

Therefore I am not saying that Dolby is bad, just saying that at this point, for music, we are at this stage where right now the hype is just cheap marketing, especially coming out of Apple’s mouth.

My 2c.

Allen
I got all the speakers for my 7.2 home theater setup for probably a total of 3-400 Canadian bucks used and they're all very nice made in Canada Energy speakers with Paradigm center and sub. A typical 5.2.2 entry level atmos receiver is in the 500-1k price range and that price will keep coming down. As far as room treatment unless you live in a concrete echo chamber typical drywall rooms should be acoustically fine enough for spatialization, otherwise a 60 dollar package of Roxul safe n sound, some cheap fabric and steel studs and you can make some panels that will do just fine.
I don't know what music enjoyers are spending their money on that they can't afford to save up 1 grand for a sound system to play the music that they enjoy.

One aspect with atmos mixes and surround setups in general that not many people seem to mention is you can have the perceived level of the music being louder while having an overall lower dB level which for a lot of people who have roomates or family is a huge benefit.
 
I have no doubt that a real space with full Dolby capability can transform a song into something amazing.

The big problem is that the majority don’t have this setup at home.

A very well treated Dolby room can easily cost 100K.
I agree! I started to setup my room in 5.1 surround before I could know that everything was gonna go to Atmos. Unfortunately, the dimensions of my room and size of the speakers are such that it would be impossible to add additional side speakers to 7 channels and my ceiling is too low to add any there. I already like the sound of the surround so much, that I would really like to do it though.

But at the same time I know, it is not trivial to set such a room up correctly! My surround setup works for me sitting at exactly in the middle. I just have to lean back a little with my chair and suddenly the illusion of a room between the surrounds and left and right doesn't properly work any longer. The sound that should appear to surround me now shifts to the back. And that is a room I spent thousands of bucks and hundreds of hours in to make it sound good!

I know that I could only get a more flexible room for critical surround listening in a room with high ceilings and at least 30 square meter dimension. Add to that the same amount spent in acoustic preparation, only that it will be more due to the size of the room. And then we easily have that 100k room. Not speaking of the cost of renting the place when you live in a big city like I do. In such a room the cost of the speakers are the least thing to worry about!

The average Joe neither has the size of room nor the knowledge or equipment or even will to set up such a listening environment. The only people who might are either home cinema nerds with good resources and a large home (probably not in a large city) or extremely rich people who just want the best. I have tested Spatial Audio on extremely good headphones with many Atmos mixes and I mostly prefer normal stereo maybe with a little crossfeed added.

As long as these things stay as they are, I don't see how Atmos would become an important factor for music for the masses. That being said, I very much enjoy that Apple Music is pushing towards Atmos, as that gives me a lot of music to listen to on my 5.1 surround setup.

@Dietz As I know you are an actual mixing engineer and surely know how difficult it is to set up a proper surround listening environment: what kind of consumer Atmos system are you talking about? And could you set it put in a 20 square meter living room? I have seen some home surround systems. People sit on a couch against the back wall of the room, the surround channels right next to them, left, center and right plus the LFE set about 3,5m in front of them. Would you really call that surround? That is IMO not even worth it for 5.1 ...
 
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there’s a bluegrass band playing in front of you, your brain can locate them in the room giving a 3D image.
Yet, they traditionally all just play into one mic. I know I sound trollish, but I think more and more about mono recordings for my personal projects. People have speakers the size of a game controller in another room to listen to music.

For the last ten years, producers have been happily degrading their audio, because people like it when their music sounds as if it came from a acratched giveaway on a flea market played on one of those 70s suitcase turntables.

Mono is the future. And lasers.
 
@Dietz As I know you are an actual mixing engineer and surely know how difficult it is to set up a proper surround listening environment: what kind of consumer Atmos system are you talking about? And could you set it put in a 20 square meter living room?
E.g. this one: -> https://www.sennheiser-hearing.com/en-US/p/ambeo-soundbar/ (or one of its down-scaled siblings).

If your living room isn't too asymmetrical and has enough reflective surfaces, this thing will make your jaw drop to the floor. 8-) Of course, that's a consumer solution and nothing you would use in the studio.
 
E.g. this one: -> https://www.sennheiser-hearing.com/en-US/p/ambeo-soundbar/ (or one of its down-scaled siblings).

If your living room isn't too asymmetrical and has enough reflective surfaces, this thing will make your jaw drop to the floor. 8-) Of course, that's a consumer solution and nothing you would use in the studio.
Ok, that soundbar might be the thing. But that is for rich kids ... it's $2500 without tax. I barely know any one who would spend even a couple of hundred bucks for "just" sound. Most are "fine" with the way their TVs internal speakers sound. :) So, I remain sceptical to how something like Atmos is really gonna be main stream in homes ...
 
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