Neumann NDH30 headphones

ALittleNightMusic said:

Did you end up getting the NDH30s? Curious to hear your thoughts on how they compare to the MM-500s.

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Spent a few days with the NDH & the MM-100, I settled for the MM-100, mainly because they match my main pair better and I think I just prefer the planar vibe. The NDH have excellent midrange and take eq very well.

As far as comparing to the 500s, I feel like the 500s have the edge in most departments, except comfort.

Again, for me there's just something I really like about the sound of planars, and I also find I don't need to EQ the 500s. I've tried all the eq settings I could find and prefer them as they are.

The MM-500s definitely have a VERY pronounced upper midrange - around circa 3.1k. I decided to EQ mine because that's a particularly tough area for orchestral production, right around where high strings can sound aggressive. In opting to dip that area around -2db and slightly boosting the bass I found a good balance for me. I think they're excellent headphones but please try one before you buy, they are definitely not for everyone.

Just ordered a pair, it's coming this week. I'll be comparing to hd800, audeze lcdx (2021), vsx, hd650.

I remember Nick phoenix commenting on here about the ndh 30s being very accurate. That's enough for me to check em out.

I generally avoid headphone eq after I realized that headphones all have variations on their sound. You can request what your audeze eq curve looks like by contacting them and giving them your serial number. When I got mine, it was remarkably different from the curves posted online - the same eq curves that are used for correction.

so, correction curves are probably adjusting eq that isn't even accurate for your specific headphones, be wary of this. you're better off avoiding or sending your headphones to sonar works so they can get your a curated eq adjustment

eric_w said:

so, correction curves are probably adjusting eq that isn't even accurate for your specific headphones, be wary of this. you're better off avoiding or sending your headphones to sonar works so they can get your a curated eq adjustment

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I usually agree but in my case the Oratory measurements matched what I was hearing very accurately with the NDH30 without eq.

One point that has to emphasized is that the final sound of headphones depends a lot on the shape of the ear. A lot of subjective judgement is needed.

Pier said:

I tried the web demo but wasn't impressed to be honest.

Maybe there's something weird with my brain but all these room simulators just end up sounding like cheap reverbs.

Not with CanOpener but it's not really a room simulator.

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I'm not interested in room correction or simulation software at all, but IMHO CanOpener is the greatest thing since Homo Erectus learned how to control fire. If using headphones, I can't recommend it highly enough.

To be honest, I’m having an easier time mixing with Slate VSX than the NDH30s so far. This is with Oratory EQ and CanOpener as well on the Neumanns. Might be my NDH30 copy or something but placing instruments in the sound stage is also easier and more defined on the VSX. Will be comparing some more over the next few weeks.

ALittleNightMusic said:

To be honest, I’m having an easier time mixing with Slate VSX than the NDH30s so far. This is with Oratory EQ and CanOpener as well on the Neumanns. Might be my NDH30 copy or something but placing instruments in the sound stage is also easier and more defined on the VSX. Will be comparing some more over the next few weeks.

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Do you find that the VSX helps with hearing details in a mix? For me, VSX is great for an overall view of the mix but I just can't hear details very well. It sounds too mushy or something. The recent updates were definitely an improvement though.

eric_w said:

Do you find that the VSX helps with hearing details in a mix? For me, VSX is great for an overall view of the mix but I just can't hear details very well. It sounds too mushy or something. The recent updates were definitely an improvement though.

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Honestly, I am hearing more details with my VSX. The benefit of that system is each room emphasizes different aspects and if you understand those, you can magnify different areas and details of your mix. Same goes for reference tracks (Metric AB is what I use). The VSX was more helpful. It’s not to say the NDH30s are bad but the VSX certainly isn’t worse to my ears. Not sure how Slate does but it works!

eric_w said:

Just ordered a pair, it's coming this week. I'll be comparing to hd800, audeze lcdx (2021), vsx, hd650.

I remember Nick phoenix commenting on here about the ndh 30s being very accurate. That's enough for me to check em out.

I generally avoid headphone eq after I realized that headphones all have variations on their sound. You can request what your audeze eq curve looks like by contacting them and giving them your serial number. When I got mine, it was remarkably different from the curves posted online - the same eq curves that are used for correction.

so, correction curves are probably adjusting eq that isn't even accurate for your specific headphones, be wary of this. you're better off avoiding or sending your headphones to sonar works so they can get your a curated eq adjustment

Click to expand...

Pair to pair variations/ quality control was a pretty big issue with earlier Audeze headphones. I've heard a few pre-2021 LCD-Xs and they were clearly differently tuned. When I raised this issue in one of the Gearspace topics Audeze came back with this answer:

"It is true that we’ve made a number of revisions of the years to all of our headphone models, the LCD-X included. Most of the time the revisions have to do with something minor, such as the source of the mini XLR connectors, and sometimes more. And over the years we have changed the way in which we measure our headphones as well as the test gear used. For example, we used to measure the frequency response at the tympanic membrane, but changed that about 5 years ago to use the Ear Entry Point instead – so it’s difficult to compare old vs newer graphs. It is very frustrating for everyone in this industry that we do not have the measurement standards as the “speaker world” (which is made even more difficult as there are many “favorite curves” of which Harman’s is one). But to get back to your question – if you send us the serial number, we’ll know exactly which version you have and can help you compare it to another LCD-X, if you’d like. Just write to us at: [email protected]. You may want to check out our Reveal+ plug-in (which is for a different purpose than SonarWorks). Additionally, we had another slight revision of the LCD-X about 2 months ago."

Full discussion is here:
https://gearspace.com/board/studio-...upgrade-sennheiser-hd800.html?highlight=hd800

With more recent Audeze cans this is not an issue anymore, post 2021 LCD-Xs do not have any significant pair to pair tuning variations.

+ In my experience when it comes to the HD650/HD600 and the HD800/HD800S, the pair to pair tuning consistency is exceptionally good.

+ If I were you, on a headphone hunt at around the £400-£600 price range, than I would definitively want to also try the new Sennheiser HD-490 PRO (or PRO plus).

Got my NDH30s and my very first impression is - darker sound than I'm accustomed to, very very flat sounding, rich mids. I now understand why people call these boring sounding headphones. Everything in a good mix feels nicely "in the pocket." Nothing feels hyped. Audeze LCDX have a hyped high end compared to the NDH30. The low end is more 3D in the LCDX (planar drivers) but also sometimes feels too hyped. Even my 650s which are dark sounding have some "hissy" highs. The NDH30 sounds way richer in the mids than the 650s. I think these have the best mids that I've heard in headphones. Not fatiguing at all.

Same idea goes for the HD800, which are ridiculously hyped in the high frequencies.

My initial thoughts here mean absolutely nothing because I have yet to mix anything in these. But I really like them. Relaxed, flat, boring sounding. Seems ideal for a mixing environment.

ozonepaul said:

Pair to pair variations/ quality control was a pretty big issue with earlier Audeze headphones. I've heard a few pre-2021 LCD-Xs and they were clearly differently tuned. When I raised this issue in one of the Gearspace topics Audeze came back with this answer:

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My LCDXs are the 2021 version and the EQ curve was still quite different from all the curves I saw online. That is what put me off from ever using one-size-fits-all corrective EQ on headphones.

Another option I saw on Gearspace. Getting good reviews from owners. Handmade and calibrated. https://olloaudio.com/products/s4x-reference-headphones

Any opinion on the Sony MDR MV 1?

My NDH-30s are going back today - but as I suspected, something seems wrong with my copy. The right channel goes in and out, which was likely contributing to the issues I had with the sound stage. Disappointing that the cable had an issue at this price point. I could order another copy, but instead I have placed an order for the Audeze MM-500s. Very different price point, but I've heard great things.

ALittleNightMusic said:

My NDH-30s are going back today - but as I suspected, something seems wrong with my copy. The right channel goes in and out, which was likely contributing to the issues I had with the sound stage. Disappointing that the cable had an issue at this price point. I could order another copy, but instead I have placed an order for the Audeze MM-500s. Very different price point, but I've heard great things.

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Report back on the MM-500s, those are one the last headphones on my list that I haven't tried (Focal Clear MG Pro is the other one). I'm considering getting rid of my LCDX 2021, HD800, and VSX, and buying the MM-500s.

Not selling my NDH30s though, I still love these.

eric_w said:

Report back on the MM-500s, those are one the last headphones on my list that I haven't tried (Focal Clear MG Pro is the other one). I'm considering getting rid of my LCDX 2021, HD800, and VSX, and buying the MM-500s.

Not selling my NDH30s though, I still love these.

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ALittleNightMusic said:

My NDH-30s are going back today - but as I suspected, something seems wrong with my copy. The right channel goes in and out, which was likely contributing to the issues I had with the sound stage. Disappointing that the cable had an issue at this price point. I could order another copy, but instead I have placed an order for the Audeze MM-500s. Very different price point, but I've heard great things.

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Justin Colletti from Sonic Scoop did an excellent 50-minute livestream about his pick as a mastering engineer, snd his #1 winner are the MM-500s, followed by NDH-30s as the 2nd choice especially for the price. Here's the spot where he talks about the MM-500s:



And here's where he talks about the NDH 30s, and he does refer back to the MM-500s briefly, and then mentions the MM-500s in comparison to the hugely expensive LCD5's:


FWIW, I'm about to do a post on the DT 1990s, why I personally picked those, and when you should by the NDH 30s or MM-500s if you have the funds instead. I discovered how good the 1990s are for ME and why. FWIW, Justin picks the 1990s as the runner up. But based on his very clear explanations, the MM-500s are THE way to go.

If you want to see the printed article version of his broadcast, here's the link:

I have a pair of NDH30s arriving tomorrow with return privileges.