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Rick Beato's Interview with Pat Metheny

I believe he basically meant the ascendance of Wynton Marsalis, and the "Jazz becomes a museum" idea. Not trying to stir up controversy, just answering the question.

EDIT: that's my interpretation; Pat didn't say that, and I can't be sure it's what he meant. So don't ascribe that to Pat.
This was the way I understood it, too. And I agree.
 
Pat Metheny was the reason I chose U of Miami music school back in the day. So fortunate to get to study w those teachers and for the opportunities they prepared me for in a life of music. Pat would come back several times to talk or play for us.
I would love to have heard a young Metheny and Jaco on a Miami casual gig:)
 
I would love to have heard a young Metheny and Jaco on a Miami casual gig:)
Oh, hell yeah :) I think I’d almost be willing to sacrifice an arm and a leg to hear that…Although - in hindsight - it would make an abrupt end to my bass playing career:grin:

These 2 giants has made an enormous impact on my musical career and the way I approach, view and understand music. For me, they are second to none.
 
A pianist/composer friend of mine interviewed Pat last year for an Australian publication. He was generous with his time and very open in sharing his thoughts and approach to music. I've not listened to much of his music, but a go-to disc at my house since the late 90s has been his collaboration with Charlie Haden on the sublime album 'Beyond the Missouri Sky'. Never grows old.
 
A pianist/composer friend of mine interviewed Pat last year for an Australian publication. He was generous with his time and very open in sharing his thoughts and approach to music. I've not listened to much of his music, but a go-to disc at my house since the late 90s has been his collaboration with Charlie Haden on the sublime album 'Beyond the Missouri Sky'. Never grows old.
Yes, if I only had to bring 1 record to the proverbial desert island, Beyond the Missouri Sky would be the one.
 
A pianist/composer friend of mine interviewed Pat last year for an Australian publication. He was generous with his time and very open in sharing his thoughts and approach to music. I've not listened to much of his music, but a go-to disc at my house since the late 90s has been his collaboration with Charlie Haden on the sublime album 'Beyond the Missouri Sky'. Never grows old.
Agreed, with the exception of that tune signed by Haden's son, can't remember the title...
 
Pat Metheny was the reason I chose U of Miami music school back in the day. So fortunate to get to study w those teachers and for the opportunities they prepared me for in a life of music. Pat would come back several times to talk or play for us.
I would love to have heard a young Metheny and Jaco on a Miami casual gig:)
I started at U of Miami in 77’. I didn’t see Pat during his visits but did meet/hear him during a Stan Kenton Clinic held at Drury Univ. (Missouri) in 73'. The fact that he and Lyle Mays eventually connected is a wonderful thing.
 
But what was up with the reference to how "everything changed in the eighties with the way people had to dress". Can anyone explain what was up with that?
The NY jazz quickly changed into everyone wearing suits and ties, playing standards and very much sounding like a previous era.
But not really. Wynton came and did his thing, and it had a large following of young guys wanting to get back to the roots of jazz. Which was understandable because things had drifted into many different terrains (many that I love), but also the music BIZ was enjoying more sales with funk/jazz, Al Jarreu type jazz. Dave sanborn etc. (which much of was also frigin great).

What record labels realized was that they made far more money off of the old catalog vs new artists.
More profit in selling even more copies of Kind of Blue instead of funding new cats.
So they signed young guys that sounded like old guys (again- not really true as many of those young cats could slam some funk too, and had a huge diverse range of styles in their souls) but the labels really wanted traditional sounding records because they could "bookend" the new artist release with a bunch of classic records. For every new Wynton record on the shelf - it would be surrounded by Basie, Miles, Armstrong etc. And naturally people would buy the Wynton record PLUS a bunch of old recordings that they may have once had on vinyl but not have on "new REMASTERED, alternate takes, CD). Label profits went through the roof.
This created a huge incentive to record more traditional jazz sounding records.
Some feel this also stifled the creative side of jazz for the next few decades.
Pat personally took a huge backlash right on the chin by critics, but his following was built not from marketing but by those experiencing the concerts so while "Jazz" looked backwards, Pat toured the world filling stadiums. Literally filling stadiums. Which led to more blowback.

The part everyone seems to miss is that "jazz" was always under the influence of outside forces.
The big band era didn't end because people didn't dig it anymore - the economics changed. Real estate was cheap in NYC and clubs opened up. Musicians could play more adventurous stuff for smaller audiences and still pay the rent. So we get Bebop and Monk etc.

The 70's open culture to adventurous music let Weather Report and PMG play stadiums and tour the world like rock stars. Even that era ended but Pats thing was so strong it lasted all the way to "the way up" tour in '05. Lyle retiring at that point seemed to be in some part to that realization. But Pat, as always, Plows on. Dude is going to be playing small clubs in his 80's and he'll still be digging it.

Economics has always influenced art. Politics is always a part of art.
Pat is just referencing an interesting moment in time that was a tsunami to many artists. When the trad jazz "young lions" marketing machine (pushed by labels) got going, bands like Steps Ahead stopped touring, Weather Report lost momentum, Chick Corea Electric Band faded a bit.

Pat didn't change at all. Same shirt, same jeans, doing his thing in spite in the face of a strong current pushing the other way. Totally understand why it still sticks with him.
40 years later - Jazz as course corrected to an interesting middle place. Closer to traditional, but super advanced and adventurous but not averse to Pats vibe thing either.

Young cats are doing it strong. Musicians roll on in spite of all obstacles and outside forces.
 
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Yeah that's the ticket.

Great interview though. What's so great about Pat is he's so good and yet so down to earth and approachable and never tires of talking about music. He isn't the jokester that Billy Joel is, but I'd put them on a short list of the best people to hear talk about music.
 
The Irony of Pat vs Wynton and the suit and tie cats is that Wyntons scene is ensconced in "Jazz at Lincoln Center" - and Pat lives a couple blocks from Lincoln Center.
I'd bump into him every now and then at the Fedex a few blocks away - back in the days when you had to fedex a DAT tape or CDrom overnight.
Things change!
Pat certainly does. Jazz and Lincoln Center ...... uh .... not so much. Which is I think, Pats point in that interview.


The big take away for me in that interview was Pat laughing at his "Compulsively Productive" personality. It explains why accomplished so much.

For the rest of us - with insecurities, imposter syndrome, procrastination issues, etc etc - adopting that compulsively productive concept might be something to work towards.

Lyle Mays - for composers in this forum - Lyle is someone deserving of a deep dive.
His whole world was based in classic composition - yet yielded entirely new worlds of music.
His piano playing is inspiring (think if Bill Evans dug even deeper into Debussy and Stravinsky but also had serious funky gospel chops). He also did not "comp" in any usual jazz sense. He literally spontaneously arranged and orchestrated on piano, in real time. Take any of his comping and write it out for a big band and it would sound perfect - yet its all improvised.

If you're looking for, or open to open a door to some of the most incredible music from the last 40 years , that is also largely not being utilized by younger composers (but would yield awesome results if applied) - Lyle Mays is your guy. Every record, Every solo, Every composition, arrangement orchestration - and even synth programming (the fact that he never uses just one synth sound - each is 4-5 things that morph into one thing but always evolving).
Not to mention that every analog synth you buy has "Lyles OB" patch in it.
Dude got an OB 4 voice early and built sounds that hold center as a melodic lead, so much so that his sound is ubiquitous 40 years later - yet too many don't really know about him. Created his own unique sonic pallete that is fertile ground for new composers to build upon.
Guarantee he's worth your time to spend a year deeply shedding. You'll be better at everything musical thing you do if you take the journey.

my 2cents.

Some good deep dives on youtube
Lyle as a composer - ,

Lyle as an improviser -


This video is a killer demonstration about what Pat was discussing with improvisers using thematic development (his "happy birthday" example).
Every inch of the Reharm was to serve thematic development - not just because its some cool shit to play.
 
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Just released last week - was Lyle's last work before his passing early this year.
Take the ride.
"The Way Up" (pat metheny groups last record) is truly Lyles last opus but this new release is a nice coda to an amazing musical legacy.
A legacy that Lyle seemed to feel that few cared about.
He was wrong. He will go down as one of the most important figures of the last 40 years - its just going to take another 40 years for future generations to figure out.
In this era that requires relentless self promotion - the genius introverts are lightly noticed.
I'm one of those that isn't going to let that happen - thus my passionate posts.

take the ride - (also notice that his piano solo is almost not even a solo at all - it disappears into the composition in such a unique way that's hard to describe)
 
The Irony of Pat vs Wynton and the suit and tie cats is that Wyntons scene is ensconced in "Jazz at Lincoln Center" - and Pat lives a couple blocks from Lincoln Center.
I'd bump into him every now and then at the Fedex a few blocks away - back in the days when you had to fedex a DAT tape or CDrom overnight.
Things change!
e in that interview was Pat laughing at his "Compulsively Productive" personality. It explains why accomplished what he did.

For the rest of us - with insecurities, imposter syndrome, procrastination issues, etc etc - adopting that compulsively productive concept might be something to work towards.
Thanks for these wonderful links. The Dr Guy Shkolnik vids are new to me.

My self-study has been through Zappa + JS Bach.
Guy's discussion of motivic development hits on precisely what I was exploring yesterday with one of Bach's Partitas.
Nice to see Guy is deep into analysis of PM, Beatles, Radiohead -- oh, and that Bach dude as well.

BTW, one of my take-aways from the PM interview was his point that a musician's audience has yet to be born. That's who your work is for....

So true of many music masters including Bach and Schubert (relatively unnoticed in his lifetime).

Chick Corea discussed a similar thing: he was getting tons of CDs from killer but unknown artists. His take: They are out there; but, it's how our society is structured.

Variations on a theme by CC and PM.

Cheers, Bill
 
So impressed with these posts ! Perspectives, depth of awareness, sadly missed until first noted exposure with gift of 'Letter from Home' from daughter _ late 80's. Despite piano jazz training and following from early childhood, Lyle Mays not highlighted apart from Pat Metheny performances, popularity.
So thankful to have been awakened by esteemed Eric Persing, and his featuring of Lyle Mays' impressive creations using Trilian: Duo #1, Duo #2, with the superb Alex Acuna. Special to watch anytime, with this personal proximity to the experienced Lyle Mays and his intense feeling for everything musical.

Many thanks for this terrific Thread ! 🙏🏻



 
So impressed with these posts ! Perspectives, depth of awareness, sadly missed until first noted exposure with gift of 'Letter from Home' from daughter _ late 80's. Despite piano jazz training and following from early childhood, Lyle Mays not highlighted apart from Pat Metheny performances, popularity.
So thankful to have been awakened by esteemed Eric Persing, and his featuring of Lyle Mays' impressive creations using Trilian: Duo #1, Duo #2, with the superb Alex Acuna. Special to watch anytime, with this personal proximity to the experienced Lyle Mays and his intense feeling for everything musical.

Many thanks for this terrific Thread ! 🙏🏻






+ a behind the scenes video


 
A legacy that Lyle seemed to feel that few cared about.
He was wrong. He will go down as one of the most important figures of the last 40 years - its just going to take another 40 years for future generations to figure out.
In this era that requires relentless self promotion - the genius introverts are lightly noticed.
I'm one of those that isn't going to let that happen - thus my passionate posts.
I had a similar thought after the passing of Allan Holdsworth years ago (whom I always wished would have made just one album with Lyle, maybe more than any single combination I could think of. Allan was somehow even more introverted, no surprise it never happened).

The truth is, I could see both of them (Lyle/AH) largely staying in their niche bubble they have been in for decades, even decades further from now. "Those that know, know" is the consolation phrase many a jazz musician would say to another after the untimely passing of a colleague/friend both knew in life. It's a frickin' downer of phrase, because in a way it's really implying that the person in question never 'pushed through' in a broader sense from a very narrow bubble and likely will all but be forgotten to time after their peers/generation have also gone. I heard a similar thing from Woody Allen in an interview and of course being Woody, sounded from an artist's POV as about the most depressing thing you've ever heard.

But what if that is the truth? I too am inclined to believe that Lyle Mays' 'cultural relevance' in comparison to Metheny's (whom I also love, of course) will be vastly lesser in the broader eyes of humanity, even decades from now. I also think perhaps even to be somewhat blunt in similar fashion that Pat 'lucked out' much more ultimately from meeting Lyle in a sense than the other way around- and we all benefited greatly by that. Pat himself has been perfectly blunt on record at times, so I don't see this as a 'low blow', sorry.

The one thing that really comes to mind whenever this point comes up is another ancient phrase; "Every generation pick's their heroes". Great, but the tendency here, is that humanity often relegates to the curb those who for whatever fickle reason just didn't 'do it' for them- otherwise amazing or seminal people kind of left to a footnote, if that. Just too many reasons this likely happens but that's the way it tends to be.

But hey, who cares- perhaps 'those who know, know' is more than enough after all. That's a life perspective/outlook thing, anyway. All I know is that at this point I'm rambling, and that Lyle Mays was a once in a lifetime talent and if his he is not remembered or appreciated as such by others now or in the future- their loss.
 
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