Headphones cause me to make bad decisions. It's too easy to hear everything, especially ambience.
Mixing on headphones - interesting discussion, Andrew Scheps
- Thread starter davidson
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BassClef
Senior Member
OK... what about reference volume levels? (just a hobbyist here with low end Focal speakers in an untreated 12x12 foot room) I've set the volume on my speakers to 75db using pink noise from my DAW and then always mix with the interface (Focusrite Clarett2PreUSB) volume knob at that setting. How do you do that with headphones? I do spend a lot of time with the headphones (Sennheiser HD650s and Beyer Dynamic DT880Pro) and have simply tried to match the volume level on my Fiio K5Pro headphone amp to what my speakers put out. I did this by simply listening to music and going back and forth between the speakers and headphones until my headphones sound like the same volume as I'm getting from the speakers.
rrichard63
Perpetual Novice
I'm also curious about this. Intuitively, it seems to me that you experience any given sound level differently on headphones than you do on speakers. So the problem is not just the mechanical one of measuring sound pressure level inside a person's ears. It's also the psychoacoustical one of what sounds equal to the listener.
vitocorleone123
Senior Member
That's a great question - I don't know the answer. If you're not mixing to a specific venue or industry that has standards, then it's easy: just turn up the volume sometimes, otherwise keep it pretty low. But if you need 100% certainty that it'll sound great at 85db on speakers in a theater? Or 100db+ in a club? It'd be good to have some way to better reference test.
For me, mixing on headphones ignites my tinnitus in long sessions more than mixing on monitors. That being said, the headphones I primarily use are Sennheiser HD25s because I know how they sound, and they really trap that sound in your ears with small clamping closed-back cups! I'm sure if I were to use gentler, bigger, open-backs it wouldn't be so bad.
But if you have headphones that have a full frequency response that you know very well, and you are always referencing other good stuff, I don't see why you wouldn't compensate for their curve and make good mixes over time. Some devices would have longer learning curves than others, and make you work harder for sure. And if you aren't as experienced as Scheps, maybe some things might sound weird in a physical room in a way you won't automatically adjust for...
But if people can make a case for mixing with NS-10s because they sound bad and have harsh mids, we can make a case for mixing on anything, right?
But if you have headphones that have a full frequency response that you know very well, and you are always referencing other good stuff, I don't see why you wouldn't compensate for their curve and make good mixes over time. Some devices would have longer learning curves than others, and make you work harder for sure. And if you aren't as experienced as Scheps, maybe some things might sound weird in a physical room in a way you won't automatically adjust for...
But if people can make a case for mixing with NS-10s because they sound bad and have harsh mids, we can make a case for mixing on anything, right?
storyteller
Senior Member
FWIW, he did mention that for his ears, he can only mix on MD7506s and cannot mix on anything else and make it work. Probably an important point. 7506s are well known to pre-digital era engineers as having the cleanest listening experience for translation. The audiophile engineer who taught me swore by them as well.
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fakemaxwell
Senior Member
Hrm I don't think there's anything special about the 7506 here, he mentions that they aren't flat and the high end is pretty hype. Having used them for a long time I would agree.
But the point is that his brain acclimated to the sound of the 7506s, so that he can intuitively adjust his mixes.
This will work for just about any pair of decent headphones, as long as the full frequency spectrum is present and you give your ears some time it'll work. If you change headphones you'll have to do it again, and this is why I think headphone correction is completely unnecessary.
vitocorleone123
Senior Member
I've found it invaluable, but I'm not a professional mixer.
storyteller
Senior Member
Oh I agree with you. I just think it is interesting that the 7506s come up in mixing circles from the pre-digital era guys who probably used NS10s and Tannoys as their original reference monitors. You definitely have to know your headphones *really* well.
chopin4525
Active Member
Best take of the video: "Headphones are a magnifier for s***"! Couldn't agree more! :D
IgneousOne
Member
I think it's fair to say that the majority of listeners these days will be listening on headphones / ear buds.
PeterN
བོད་
I just noticed that none of the fancy Sennheiser or AKG headphones I got pick up clipping noise well. So what a surprise when I randomly went to a track now, that was 'ready' long ago, and I found it full of clipping noise.
Yea, these cheap ones pick up clipping. I guess I need to start to go through tracks with them as well.
Comments? Do you have headphones to detect clipping? (it is clear the reasonably good ones miss out here).
Yea, these cheap ones pick up clipping. I guess I need to start to go through tracks with them as well.
Comments? Do you have headphones to detect clipping? (it is clear the reasonably good ones miss out here).
jonnybutter
Senior Member
For me this is the only problem with mixing on headphones (other than, as Dietz rightly says, it's a lonely way to listen to music)
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SupremeFist
Senior Member
What do you mean by clipping noise? Are you sure you aren't just hearing those earbuds distorting?I just noticed that none of the fancy Sennheiser or AKG headphones I got pick up clipping noise well. So what a surprise when I randomly went to a track now, that was 'ready' long ago, and I found it full of clipping noise.
Yea, these cheap ones pick up clipping. I guess I need to start to go through tracks with them as well.
Comments? Do you have headphones to detect clipping? (it is clear the reasonably good ones miss out here).
PeterN
བོད་
Like when it clips over 0db, or it could be the clipper. The short 'scratch' noise. Or, lets say, the you put a limiter but push it too hard. That noise. Not the earbuds, but you hear it when using them. (I dont have the Sennheiser 660s here now, but I didnt pick up the clip noise in them). Definitely clear noise in earbuds, which cost me 50EUR or something. On some hard hitting piano notes. (I bet the average listener wouldn't even notice this, but a pro mastering engineer might be shocked of this heresy).
Pier
Senior Member
Maybe what you're hearing is transient reproduction. Some people call this fast and slow headphones.
Many people mention IEMs are generally faster and better at transients. Maybe it's a consequence of the driver being so small.
On the Record: "Technical Ability" – In-Ear Fidelity
An explanation of "technicalities" according to the way I hear things.
crinacle.com
SupremeFist
Senior Member
Ok, I've definitely heard suboptimally set limiters doing that to piano notes. Post an excerpt though? I'm curious.
PeterN
བོད་
I tried to bounce a part now of a track with that noise, but it didnt clip there when I bounced it, lets see if I figure this out without too much effort.
