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Not to hijack the thread, but Sam, if you have time would post an example of CSS with the vibrato plugin active, I’m super curious to hear it since the vibrato control is a crossfade.
Will do. Will play two lines, one with the Auto Vib on and the other with Vibrato always on (not automating CC2)
 
Not to hijack the thread, but Sam, if you have time would post an example of CSS with the vibrato plugin active, I’m super curious to hear it since the vibrato control is a crossfade.
Hey, I have a couple of audio files here.
This first one is just Violins 1:
first with Auto Vib and second without. The third is with Auto Vib and Reverb and the fourth is without Auto Vib but with Reverb. The third and fourth are repetitions of the first and second but with reverb sends.
View attachment CSS_AutoVib_WithoutBacking.mp3

The second one is with the CSS Ensemble playing chords in the back. Just like the first one, I have Auto Vib going for the ensemble as well.
so first with auto vib for both V1 and Ens and second without Auto Vib for both. The third and fourth are repeats with reverb sends.

View attachment CSS_AutoVib_WithBacking.mp3

Note, when I mean no Auto Vib, I have maxed out CC2 so that it's always on max vibrato and bypassed the Auto Vib Multiscript.

Let me know if you find it makes a difference. I personally like the one with Auto Vib (basically automating CC2 for every note just like a real string player would). This way when you play fast lines, there will be no vibrato as the Auto Vib is set to progressively increase vibrato for every note and will not have the time to get to a point where the vibrato samples are triggered.
 
Hey, I have a couple of audio files here.
This first one is just Violins 1:
first with Auto Vib and second without. The third is with Auto Vib and Reverb and the fourth is without Auto Vib but with Reverb. The third and fourth are repetitions of the first and second but with reverb sends.
View attachment CSS_AutoVib_WithoutBacking.mp3

The second one is with the CSS Ensemble playing chords in the back. Just like the first one, I have Auto Vib going for the ensemble as well.
so first with auto vib for both V1 and Ens and second without Auto Vib for both. The third and fourth are repeats with reverb sends.

View attachment CSS_AutoVib_WithBacking.mp3

Note, when I mean no Auto Vib, I have maxed out CC2 so that it's always on max vibrato and bypassed the Auto Vib Multiscript.

Let me know if you find it makes a difference. I personally like the one with Auto Vib (basically automating CC2 for every note just like a real string player would). This way when you play fast lines, there will be no vibrato as the Auto Vib is set to progressively increase vibrato for every note and will not have the time to get to a point where the vibrato samples are triggered.
That does bring quite a bit of difference, there's more motion to the Auto Vib versions while the maxed version seems fuller/more stable and static. I like them both in different ways, but this does bring out a different quality to CSS, think I might need to pick up the plugin! Thanks for taking the time to create and share these examples, really appreciate it!

The more I listen the more the plugin versions stand out.
 
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That does bring quite a bit of difference, there's more motion to the Auto Vib versions while the maxed version seems fuller/more stable and static. I like them both in different ways, but this does bring out a different quality to CSS, think I might need to pick up the plugin! Thanks for taking the time to create and share these examples, really appreciate it!

The more I listen the more the plugin versions stand out.
I agree. Alex has really improved the vibrato in 1.7. Before I remember it was more of an on-off switch with nothing in the middle. But the 1.7 update really breathes new life to CSS. Also, the plugin is very handy and is quite affordable too, but all of this can be done by automating the vibrato via fader or hand draw automation after the recording. I think the Auto Vib plugin will do well with Spitfire libraries too, Haven't tried it out on that. Will give it a whirl with BBCSO and see how much of a difference it adds.
 
On talking about the house themes in Hogwart's Legacy:

1705449558729.png



"à la carte" 😉
That's incredible and only speaks to how powerful the Cinematic Studio Series is. I do have a question. Do you think he used key switches for the score, or single articulations per track? Just thinking out loud. I really like working with single articulations per track but man does it take a lot of time...
 
I agree. Alex has really improved the vibrato in 1.7. Before I remember it was more of an on-off switch with nothing in the middle. But the 1.7 update really breathes new life to CSS. Also, the plugin is very handy and is quite affordable too, but all of this can be done by automating the vibrato via fader or hand draw automation after the recording. I think the Auto Vib plugin will do well with Spitfire libraries too, Haven't tried it out on that. Will give it a whirl with BBCSO and see how much of a difference it adds.
Purchased it! Will be great for Vivid Strings too! I'm more programmer/score scribe than performer since I'm primarily a mandolinist, so these kinds of tools are helpful :) Anyway, sorry for the diversion folks.
 
Honestly BBCSO string legatos are pretty good, what exactly is not working well there? I have quite a lot of string libraries and each one can be a workhorse including strings in BBCSO. Now each one has its quirks, workflow and special sound for sure..!)
Oh no I agree, BBCSO legatos sound good for the most part! I think it's just during slightly faster passages that they start to fall apart, at least to my ear. Notes seem to lose their presence and blur together.

I attached a file with an excerpt from E.T. comparing BBC's Violins and ARO Soaring High Strings (I ended up checking them out after Vik's recommendation). Both sound good (maybe ARO slightly better in some passages), but I think where both lose footing is the third phrase with that descending line after the m7 leap. It just doesn't sound "right" to my ear (or I've just been listening to it for too long and have started to go a bit mad).
 

Attachments

  • ET BBC vs ARO.mp3
    914.1 KB
- Spitfire Abbey Road Soaring High Strings: a combination of V1 and V2. It will sound fuller, and the legato was made for romantic and expresive lines, with a mix between slurred transitions and portamento. It also has runs, which, atm, are much better than the runs from ARO V1. Its a cheap option, probably the cheapest.

- Orchestral Tools Berlin Strings: Again, you can purchase a la charte just the Longs and Shorts patch. It has more things than the Symphonic, but the sections is smaller (8,6,5,5,4). Maybe the sound is not what you are looking for. It received an update a few days ago which seems nice.
After seeing enough recommendations for it, I picked up Soaring High Strings as it was super cheap for me. I really like the sound of the library. For certain pieces, it's closer to the mark of the sound I'm looking for.

Berlin Strings also seems really nice. I haven't done much listening outside of the demos on OT's website, but they sound pretty lovely from what I've heard. Definitely gonna research a bit more.
 
That's incredible and only speaks to how powerful the Cinematic Studio Series is. I do have a question. Do you think he used key switches for the score, or single articulations per track? Just thinking out loud. I really like working with single articulations per track but man does it take a lot of time...
Expression Maps, I think.
 
Oh no I agree, BBCSO legatos sound good for the most part! I think it's just during slightly faster passages that they start to fall apart, at least to my ear. Notes seem to lose their presence and blur together.

I attached a file with an excerpt from E.T. comparing BBC's Violins and ARO Soaring High Strings (I ended up checking them out after Vik's recommendation). Both sound good (maybe ARO slightly better in some passages), but I think where both lose footing is the third phrase with that descending line after the m7 leap. It just doesn't sound "right" to my ear (or I've just been listening to it for too long and have started to go a bit mad).
Thanks for posting audio, that really helps get your point across. I prefer ARO SHS for what it's worth.

I think BBC SO struggles with this piece because there is a lot of bow change legatos being used and BBC only has portemento and finger legato.

To demonstrate a few other libraries tackling the same music, I played along with the original sound track using Abbey Road Violins 1, Spitfire Appassionata , and PS Vista. The first of these two libaries allow one to choose between fingered and bowed legato which is really useful for a complex passage like this which switches between slow lyrical lines and faster bow change lines.

The midi is different for each upload, as I performed the piece live specfically for each library. The audio was normalised.

Abbey Road Violins 1: (extended lyrical legato: vintage 1 and close ribbon):

View attachment abbey road vintage.mp3
Spitfire Appassionata (mix 1):

View attachment appassionata.mp3
Performance Samples Vista (5 violins - both mics):
View attachment vista 5 violins.mp3
Performance Samples Vista (3 Violins FFF - default mic):

View attachment vista 3 violins.mp3
The 3 violins patch from Vista is usually used for layering:

AR and Vista:
View attachment abbey road vintage with vista 3.mp3

SAS and Vista:
View attachment appsassionata + vista 3.mp3

Vista and Vista:
View attachment vista all violins.mp3

I hope this is useful.
 
Thanks for posting audio, that really helps get your point across. I prefer ARO SHS for what it's worth.

I think BBC SO struggles with this piece because there is a lot of bow change legatos being used and BBC only has portemento and finger legato.

To demonstrate a few other libraries tackling the same music, I played along with the original sound track using Abbey Road Violins 1, Spitfire Appassionata , and PS Vista. The first of these two libaries allow one to choose between fingered and bowed legato which is really useful for a complex passage like this which switches between slow lyrical lines and faster bow change lines.

The midi is different for each upload, as I performed the piece live specfically for each library. The audio was normalised.

Abbey Road Violins 1: (extended lyrical legato: vintage 1 and close ribbon):

View attachment abbey road vintage.mp3
Spitfire Appassionata (mix 1):

View attachment appassionata.mp3
Performance Samples Vista (5 violins - both mics):
View attachment vista 5 violins.mp3
Performance Samples Vista (3 Violins FFF - default mic):

View attachment vista 3 violins.mp3
The 3 violins patch from Vista is usually used for layering:

AR and Vista:
View attachment abbey road vintage with vista 3.mp3

SAS and Vista:
View attachment appsassionata + vista 3.mp3

Vista and Vista:
View attachment vista all violins.mp3

I hope this is useful.
To my ears Vista is the stand out if we're only picking one library, specially if the 3 Violins patch is layered on top. I can feel the emotion in the strings and I find it missing in spitfire's stuff for the most part. ARO V1 + Vista is probably my favourite here. Where ARO V1 lacks emotion, Vista helps. And where Vista's legatos can get too uncontrollable, ARO V1's legato helps tame it down.
 
you can keep an eye out for the sales on Spitfire's Abbey Road Orchestra series (currently only the violins and celli are available), those are imo the libraries to beat,
With the current sale I'm on the fence with these two (I own foundations and all the selections).

In which ways do you think they are better than CSS? Are the legatos that versatile? What about the runs?
 
With the current sale I'm on the fence with these two (I own foundations and all the selections).

In which ways do you think they are better than CSS? Are the legatos that versatile? What about the runs?
I would say the way CSS is better is the price. Other than that, CSS has a bit of a Studio sound but the ARO series is very lush. You also can't beat the Abbey Road sound you get with ARO. If you have the money and are okay spending so much for just Violins and Cellos then go for the ARO ones. Else CSS is really one of the best string libraries to ever be released so grabbing that, you'll probably get more bang for your buck.
 
AR and Vista

Vista and Vista
Both these sound good IMO, but how is Vista + Vista set up?

To @LiamHKW, if you' re still looking into this or looking for more, CSS is also an alternative many of this forum's users (including me) find useful.

It may also be worth taking an extra look (since you mention 'mainly violins and celli') at those libraries which can be bought one section at a time, like Performance Samples Con Moto (both Violins A and B are very useful), and Spitfires ARO Cellos and 1st Violins 1 – especially right now, due to the campaign: €244/€149 for the Cellos and €359/€199 for the 1st Violins. (I don't have any personal experience with the Abbey Road libraries.)

Among the examples posted in this thread, AR combined with Vista sticks out as one of the best solutions.

Vista II will probably also be a brilliant alternative when it's released, but I don't know if it will be possible to buy one section at a time.
 
Both these sound good IMO, but how is Vista + Vista set up?

To @LiamHKW, if you' re still looking into this or looking for more, CSS is also an alternative many of this forum's users (including me) find useful.

It may also be worth taking an extra look (since you mention 'mainly violins and celli') at those libraries which can be bought one section at a time, like Performance Samples Con Moto (both Violins A and B are very useful), and Spitfires ARO Cellos and 1st Violins 1 – especially right now, due to the campaign: €244/€149 for the Cellos and €359/€199 for the 1st Violins. (I don't have any personal experience with the Abbey Road libraries.)

Among the examples posted in this thread, AR combined with Vista sticks out as one of the best solutions.

Vista II will probably also be a brilliant alternative when it's released, but I don't know if it will be possible to buy one section at a time.
5 violins patch with 3 violins overlay.
 
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With the current sale I'm on the fence with these two (I own foundations and all the selections).

In which ways do you think they are better than CSS? Are the legatos that versatile? What about the runs?
I guess the first point of difference is the sound and microphone positions, which is subjective as to whether that makes it better for you or not, but it's definitely something that makes it better for me.

I just find the AR series to be more versatile. It allows for a deeper level of programming since it has more dynamic layers, more vibrato level options, more legato transition styles, and different note attack options.
CSS's legato will often still sound more expressive with less effort, but it has less range of expressiveness, so doesn't suit as wide a range of contexts as AR does.
For runs, I think CSS still has the edge since 1.7 update.
 
I wish I could understand the love for ARO First Violins and Cellos.

The sound does not give me any emotional reaction at all.

It's not a question of me preferring the more romantic string sound of CSS, because I also love the sound of SSS and SCS.

However ARO strings to me sound stale, without movement. Polished, but without soul.
 
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several of these companies offer edu discount, and there are also various campaigns throughout the year
good suggestion ^^

I immediately (as apparently did others) thought of Spitfire's Appassionata Strings when I read your post. I think it's their best legato, and I have a lot of their libraries. For a Romantic (not romantic) sound, like the one JW often goes for, I think this library should be in your set for consideration. Bear in mind it's not an "everything" library; appassionata doesn't offer super-staccato or aggressive shorts, but it does have some "glancing attack" articulations that can do the trick as not much else can.

CSS is also a wonderful library -- sonically one of the best out there. It's edited very well too. If it has a (small) deficiency it's that I find my mod wheel sends its vibrato from "none" to "a lot" in a very small range. Moreover, although it's gorgeous with vibrato I am not as attracted to its senza vib sound.

Given your student-level budgeting, of course you will want to listen veeerrry carefully to the walk-throughs and demos. Best is to listen through both headphones and speakers so you can really hear artifacts (if any).

[note: I have received free products from Spitfire]
 
I wish I could understand the love for ARO First Violins and Cellos.

The sound does not give me any emotional reaction at all.

It's not a question of me preferring the more romantic string sound of CSS, because I also love the sound of SSS and SCS.

However ARO strings to me sound stale, without movement. Polished, but without soul.
I hear that too in the demos and that is the reason I'm still on the fence even though I own many ARO libraries.

That said, I don't see that much love for them. People are always talking and posting demos for CSS and Pacific and others. At first I thought it was a price issue but I'm not so sure.

@Jdiggity1 likes them and I have high respect for his skills, though.
 
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